Gary Zukav and Linda Francis

Connie: I am so thrilled to be talking to Gary Zukav and Linda Francis today. Gary is the author of many books, including The Dancing Wu Li Masters, An Overview Of The New Physics (William Morrow 1979), which he won the American Book Award for Science in 1979 and The Seat of the Soul (Fireside 1989), which became the number one New York Times Best Seller 31 times and stayed on that list for three years. Incredible!

Since then he has had other best sellers including, Soul Stories (Simon & Schuster 2000) and The Heart of the Soul: Emotional Awareness (Fireside 2001) and The Mind of the Soul: Responsible Choice (Simon & Schuster 2004) both co-written with his partner, Linda Francis. His newest book is Soul To Soul (Free Press 2007). His books have sold six million copies and are published in 24 languages.

I can remember reading The Seat of the Soul years ago and seeing Gary on Oprah. He has become one of the most respected authorities on self discovery and spiritual growth and we are so fortunate to have Gary and Linda coming to host a workshop on ‘Relationships and the Spiritual Path’ on September 13th and 14th in Edmonton. (For more information about the workshop, go to www.lmspiritualevents.com or www.seatofthesoul.com.)

Welcome Gary and Linda! There are so many questions that I would love to ask you both today, but I would like to focus on the subject of relationships and spiritual partnerships. First, what is the purpose of relationships from a spiritual perspective and what is spiritual partnership?

Gary: The purpose of relationships from a spiritual perspective is to grow spiritually and that means to become someone who is more emotionally aware, more able to choose responsibly, more able to consult intuition, more able to use his or her experiences, including the most painful experiences, in order to create a life of meaning and joy and purpose and fulfillment.

A spiritual partnership specifically is a partnership between equals for the purpose of spiritual growth.

Linda: So, Connie, for me, I would say that spiritual growth is learning about yourself, taking responsibility for who you are and giving your gifts. Whereas many people, including myself, have parts that would rather change other people and have them be different than they are and have expectations, and those are the things we help people learn when they become spiritual partners.

In other words, when Gary and I became spiritual partners, we decided to help each other when we see that there are parts of us that want to change the other person. We talk about it openly. So that’s just to give you a little idea of what spiritual partnership is.

Connie: I want ask what is the difference between our soul and our personality? Because it seems to me that it’s our personality part of us that creates our problems in relationships.

Gary: Your personality is that part of you that was born in time and will die in time. It’s the part of you that carries your name. It is not only what psychologists call a personality, which means your affect and cognition and perception, but in addition to that it’s your body and it’s your intuitional structure, which means the way that you understand or the way that you hear or register intuition.

When you say it’s the personality part of us that creates our problems in our relationships, now we get to the real core of spiritual growth through relationship. And really there isn’t any other way to grow spiritually. Of course, you have to do the inner working yourself, but it’s your relationships that bring your attention to what you need to do the inner work on.

Your personality is not your enemy. Your personality is not your obstacle. Your personality is an energy tool that your soul has adapted in order to learn in the domain of time and space and matter and duality. In other words, that is experiencing. It is the part of your soul that is experiencing physicalness in order to evolve. Your personality is not a single thing. It has a lot of different parts. It has different aspects or facets.

For example, there are parts of your personality that are angry and jealous or resentful or that feel superior or inferior or that can’t stop eating or drinking or masturbating or shopping or smoking or looking for sex or gambling.

And there’s parts of your personality that are kind and patient and considerate and caring. Generally all of these parts of your personality can be put into two baskets or generic categories: love and fear. The parts of your personality that are angry, resentful, jealous, enraged, etc., those are in the category of fear and the parts of your personality that are kind and considerate and caring and patient and grateful and content and fulfilled, those are the parts of your personality that are in the generic category of love.

Now we come back to your question. You said it seems that the personality is the problem when it comes to relationships, but it’s not. It’s our vehicle for growing spiritually. The turbulence in your relationships are caused by the frightened parts of your personality.

The parts of your personality, in other words, that feel insecure, unworthy, that they don’t belong and in order to cover the pain of those – of powerlessness, that’s what really lies at the heart of this – in order to cover the pain of powerlessness these parts of your personality become angry or jealous or resentful and that causes turbulence in your relationships. But I’m using the word turbulence instead of problems because these are not problems.

As we evolve – and we are now – into a species that is not limited to the five senses, that is multi-sensory (it has the five senses and it is not limited only to those five senses) then we begin to see that the purpose of our interactions is to grow spiritually so the turbulence in your relationships point your attention sometimes unmistakably to parts of your personality that you need to heal in order to move into your full potential, the parts that are angry or jealous or resentful or out of control or obsessive or compulsive.

So, individuals in old type relationships, five sensory individuals, think there’s a problem when anger or jealousy or resentment shows up in a relationship. But spiritual partners look at those experiences and they use them to find the parts of themselves that they need to heal in order to move into their full potential. So, from the soul’s point of view, they are not problems. They are opportunities to grow.

Linda: In other words, in a relationship that is not a spiritual partnership if I feel angry or jealous or upset about things that you do, I would think it’s your problem and your fault and our relationship has problems.

But in a spiritual partnership I look at those reactions that I’m having and I try to do my best to change those in me instead of trying to change you or someone else.

Gary: That’s the heart of the matter. That’s the difference between creating external power, which is trying to change someone else so that you’ll feel better or safe or valuable, and changing yourself so that you won’t hurt when someone else does things that activate frightened parts of your personality.

In other words, what Linda is saying and she said it very clearly, is that in old type relationships I consider other people to be the reason that I’m angry, the reason that I’m hurting and I try to change them so that I won’t hurt anymore. But when I pursue authentic power, I don’t look at what triggered or activated a frightened part of my personality or a painful experience. I look at what got activated and that’s in me. It’s not in anyone else.

And then I turn my attention to it and I strive to change it permanently. I strive to pull these painful experiences out by the root. I don’t worry about changing someone else. I focus on changing myself and that’s the creation of authentic power. That’s what spiritual partners do. Remember, it’s partnership between equals for spiritual growth. Spiritual growth means creating authentic power.

Linda: Well, there’s so much we can say about this, Connie. We’ll just do our best to say as much as we can to support people. I hope they can come to the workshops and we can really go into it in depth and really experience what we’re talking about.

Connie: Do we choose our personalities before we are born to best match what our souls need to learn?

Gary: The ‘we’ that chooses is not the ‘we’ that is having this question and answer session. It is your soul that determines your personality. In other words, your personality is perfect for the mission that your soul is on. So for those of you that think your nose is too large or your breasts are too small or your hair should be a different color or you should be taller or shorter or bigger or more muscular or more curvy, know that whatever you were when you were born is perfect - perfect for what you need to accomplish.

Now, if frightened parts of your personality are not challenged by you, you may become very thin or you may become very heavy, but the point is your soul creates your personality.

Linda: You mean the frightened part of my personality may have control over me. In other words, if I let it (the frightened part of my personality that doesn’t feel good about myself) I may eat and eat and eat and get really, really heavy because I didn’t challenge that part of me.

Gary: That’s right. And none of the frightened parts of your personality feel good about you. But to use the example that Linda gave, if you become obese because you eat rather than look at the pain that you experience in your life so that you can change it, then don’t use what I’m saying as a justification that “because I’m obese that’s the way I should be because that’s what my soul chose.”

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that your body is perfect for what you were born to accomplish, for giving the gifts that you were born to give.

Linda: Connie, I do want to say one thing. Everything that Gary and I are saying, we’re not asking anyone to believe this. In fact, we never ask people to believe what we’re saying. We know it’s the way we see things and we ask people to experiment. We don’t ask you to follow or think that what we say is it.

Anything that we talk about, we want you to experiment with it, if it’s true for you, and if it’s not true for you let that part go. Let’s just say that.

Connie: Okay, do we choose the most significant people in our life before we are born, like our parents and siblings and partners and children?

Gary: It’s not that simple, Connie. In one way the answer is yes, but it’s quite complex. For example, before you were born you have agreements with souls to support one another if certain conditions come into being. If certain conditions come into being then a certain individual or individuals will come into your life.

If other circumstances come into being, other people will appear. These different circumstances are created in the Earth school after your incarnation by the choices that you make. And no one knows in advance what choices you will make. You have free will and it’s with your free will that you create. You create continually so it’s not accurate to say that your mother and your father were destined to be your parents from before the time you were born because they were not ‘destined’ to meet one another.

They came into one another’s lives because of decisions, because of choices they each had made and those choices brought them together and they decided to become your parents or they decided to do whatever it is they did that made them your parents. So your parents are always the best parents you could have, given the wisdom of the choices that you make.

That’s not quite right in that it sounds as though some parents could be better than others. Let me put it this way - your parents are always the most challenging people in your life in many ways. Or, put yet another way, your opportunities to grow spiritually are always most abundant in your interactions with your parents, because you’ll find if you look at your interactions with your parents that those things that you need to change to heal in yourself in order to interact lovingly with your parents, are the same things that you need to heal in your life in order to move into your full potential.

Linda: I was just thinking, Connie, when Gary was talking, that it was so clear to me when I met Gary. I didn’t meet Gary until I was about 45 and I really saw how the different choices that I made allowed me to be in a position in my life where I could actually have a healthy relationship with someone and a spiritual partnership.

I had read The Dancing Wu Li Masters and The Seat of the Soul and they were such amazing books to me, very important to me. And when I met Gary and realized I was being connected with him, I realized at some point that it was because of choices that I had made because if I had made other choices we would have never met. And the same is true for him.

I don’t know if you’ve had the experience before or not, Connie, but that’s mine.

Connie: It’s very interesting. You’re making me think. It’s true. I kind of thought it was more destined, to be honest. So, you’re kind of surprising me with your answer and yet it makes a lot of sense. So, we could have had a lot of different parents, then?

Gary: The potential that exists before you in any moment is quite large. In other words, there are many possible futures that could come into being depending upon the choices that you make. You can look at it this way - metaphorically speaking, at each moment you stand before a series of doors and you will go through one of them, but you can’t go through all of them. You can only go through one door, and whenever you go through one door, the other doors close and the door you go through opens up a new room.

And in that room are more doors. So, it’s not a matter of saying you can make a right decision or a wrong decision. You make decisions. And those decisions have consequences. You can look at it in terms of cause and effect. That’s exactly what it is. Every choice is a cause and every cause creates effects.

So, it’s not accurate to say that you were destined to have one set of parents. Your life is much more complex than that, enormously complex. You could say there are infinite possibilities before you. Some of them have a very low probability of ever coming into being and some of them have a very high probability. In other words, you keep bringing them into being again and again and again, like when you get angry and keep reacting. But you have free will and you can always choose anew. In fact, you do always choose anew. Your option is to choose differently.

Connie: I want to have your comment on mirroring. When people are annoyed or angered or triggered by someone else, how is that a reflection of themselves?

Linda: Well, any time that we have reactions to anyone about anything, if we look really deeply into ourselves we’ll find that we have that in ourselves and it’s not completely healed or we wouldn’t be having that reaction about anything - whether you’re jealous of someone or you think that person is really not a very nice person or you think they’re acting superior.

If you look really deeply inside yourself, you’ll find that in you. I found that over and over again, Connie. I’m so grateful for that because it helps me when I have a reaction to step back and say: Okay, I’m having this reaction but I know that it has to do with me and not the other person. And I want to be able to interact with them in a healthy way. So I want to heal what’s going on so that I can speak and act in a healthy way toward that person instead of making them wrong or judging them.

Gary: So, what Linda is talking about is projection. The Swiss psychologist, Carl Jung, studied this quite thoroughly and it is easy to understand that whatever you will not acknowledge in yourself (because it’s too shameful or painful) you will dislike and you will react to when you see it outside of yourself.

It’s very helpful to know this because that means whenever you see someone, for example, and you instantly dislike something about that person, look for what it is you dislike about that person in yourself and you will find it. And when you find it in yourself you will become compassionate. You’ll understand what that other person is feeling and you will no longer react. That’s called projection recall. And we use it a lot.

However, there is another way of looking at mirroring too and that’s the law of attraction. Like energy attracts like energy so if you are an angry person you will live in an angry world. If you’re a vengeful person you’ll attract vengeful people. If you’re a loving person you’ll attract loving people.

So, look around you and see what kind of people fill your world? Are they violent? Are they gentle? Are they angry? Are they frightened? In other words, you can begin to see what is in yourself by looking around you and considering that your world around you is a mirror. It’s symbolic. So, that’s a way of looking at mirroring also.

Connie: I want to know what you would define as an unhealthy relationship. For example, how do we know when we’re supposed to work out our differences in a relationship or when we should let go of a relationship?

Linda: That’s kind of a complicated question because an unhealthy relationship, how I would consider that, is when I’m not learning and growing myself.

Gary: It’s an unconscious relationship.

Linda: Yes, it’s unconscious so I’m not aware of what’s going on in me and the other person. People are in unhealthy relationships, meaning unconscious relationships, where they fight all the time and other people think why are they together? Well, they’re unconscious. But it’s more comfortable to stay in a relationship like that when you’re unconscious than to actually do something that is different because the familiar patterns continue to keep you in this relationship until you say I’m not doing that anymore; that’s not healthy for me. And so a lot of people say, I’m staying in my relationship even though it’s really bad because I have things to learn.

But you really have to decide. If you’re being abused or if you’re not being treated well in some ways, you have to really look at how you can begin to have a more conscious relationship. In other words, you become more conscious yourself and as you begin to learn about yourself you can decide if this is the way you want to live your life. And that takes some time.

But it first takes an act on your part to change it, rather than wait for the other person to change or try to change the other person. It’s about you beginning to do that work on yourself so that then you can see what’s the healthiest thing for you in that relationship. Is that making sense to you, Connie?

Connie: Yes, so there again, there’s always growing and making the best choice you can in the moment.

Linda: Absolutely.

Connie: Is there ever a good reason to sacrifice yourself for someone or for a relationship. For example, staying married for the sake of your children or not moving because of your children or elderly parents?

Linda: Well, I can answer this directly. I was married when I was very young. I had two children and a very unhealthy relationship, so what I’m speaking about I know about. And for many years I thought I needed to stay in this relationship because of the children. I felt my children needed a father and a mother.

But when I realized – it took me some years – but I really realized what they were learning about love and what they were learning about relationships was so unhealthy. And I was unconscious and I could not continue to do that. Then I realized that I needed to leave the relationship and begin to do the healthiest things I could do for myself.

And if I hadn’t done that I certainly would never have met Gary. I don’t know what would have happened in my life if I had decided that I had to stay in this marriage no matter what. I don’t know what would have happened, but it wouldn’t have been good.

So I’m really grateful that I used my will. Even though I didn’t know what I was doing, I still knew I had to not create more and more pain in my life by living a lie, by being out of my integrity. And so I needed to do the best I could in that moment. I knew I needed to leave and change things, and really let my children know that there is a difference between love and living unconsciously and having to keep an agreement, a marriage that really didn’t work at all and, in fact, was very unhealthy.

But everyone has to do what they have to do. But I’m telling you I’m speaking from my own experience right now.

Connie: Okay. What is the difference between a spiritual partner and a soul mate?

Gary: I know what a spiritual partner is, but I’m not too sure what different people mean when they say soul mate. I think generally they mean that there is only one other person among the six billion people on the earth that could ever be the right person for them to co-create a life with and to find their fulfillment with. That’s not correct.

However, I have my own definition of soul mate. All of us in the Earth school are souls. As we become multi-sensory, we become aware of ourselves not only as personalities, as bodies and minds, but also as having an immortal component. That’s the soul. The soul is that part of you that existed before you were born and that will exist after you are born.

Creating authentic power is aligning your personality with your soul. Your soul wants harmony in cooperation and sharing and reverence for life. As you use your will to align your personality with your soul, you use your will to create these things in your life. And as you create these things in your life you encounter all of the frightened parts of your personality that oppose them.

This is the spiritual path, aligning your personality with your soul through the use of your will and as you become aligned with your soul your life acquires more meaning and purpose and depth and vitality. Your creativity increases, your joy expands. You are fulfilled and fulfilling. You know that you are alive for a reason and you are living that reason. This is the creation of authentic power and the experience of authentic power.

Every individual in the Earth school is a soul, is a personality awakening to himself or herself as a soul. In other words, we are all soul mates. We are all on this earth for the same reason: to grow spiritually, to create authentic power, to create life, to cooperate and share and to create harmony and to revere life.

The only question is how will you relate with your many different soul mates? Now, in the case of my soul mate, Linda, we defined our relationship as a spiritual partnership in which we live together, work together, we sleep together, we wake up together; we’re very intimate in every way. We’re monogamous, but she’s the only spiritual partner that I relate to that way.

But I have other spiritual partners - spiritual partners in The Seat of the Soul Institute, spiritual partners in our three year Authentic Power Program, spiritual partners in the community where we live. My vision is a six billion person spiritual partnership, partnership between equals for the purpose of spiritual growth, partnership between individuals who are emotionally aware, choosing responsibly, consulting their intuition and striving to align their personalities with their souls.

How will I relate to each of these soul mates? That’s the question.

Connie: Then how can I change my relationships with people I love into spiritual partnerships?

Linda: Well, the most important thing is that you have to have your spiritual growth as your highest priority. In other words creating authentic power is essential and it’s not about changing anyone else. It’s about you modeling how you’re living and inviting them, but not expecting that they’ll interact with you in different ways. They may or they may not. They may want to and they may not want to, but I feel that the more open you are and the more that you change yourself, the more attractive people are to you that want to do the same thing.

Connie: I was thinking about people that are already in my life, not the ones I’m attracting. For example: my family, my siblings, people who may not be on the same spiritual path as me.

Gary: Well, you can’t change them. If you try to change someone else you’re pursuing external power, the ability to manipulate and to control. And that’s now counterproductive to our evolution. It produces only violence and destruction. So the question is, how can I create spiritual partnerships? Maybe that was your question, but I wanted to clarify that the way to create a spiritual partnership is not to change someone else.

In fact, you can’t create a spiritual partnership that way because you’re attempting to manipulate them. The way to create a spiritual partnership is to create authentic power yourself, is to strive to become an individual who is emotionally aware, who is no longer willing to let her anger make her shout or withdraw emotionally or produce painful consequences in her life and as you do that you begin to draw other people to you who are doing the same. That’s the law of attraction that I spoke about.

And you recognize one another and you enjoy your interactions. They are quite substantive.

Linda: But, Connie, I know what you were saying. You were saying that when you have loved ones, siblings or parents or children or whoever it is in your life, and they’re not really interested, you don’t think. What you can do is model and not change who you are when you’re around them. Do what you need to do to grow yourself.

In other words, if you are in a family where people tend to please each other or people are screaming at each other or whatever it is, you can still do what it is that you need to do. You don’t need to act in the ways you’ve always interacted with your family if it’s unhealthy. You can begin to act and speak in ways that are healthy for you and then they can choose how they want to be with you.

That’s the best way I can see because otherwise you’re not in your integrity if you’re not being who you are with your family. And so what I found - it’s really interesting… Gary and I try to do our best to be in spiritual partnership with everyone, our family, everyone. And we have these amazing relationships with our granddaughters and it’s been so much fun to teach them the tools of emotional awareness and learning how to create responsible choices and teaching them how to actually learn to use their bodies as a way to find out if there are frightened parts of their personality active or not - the things we teach everyone.

And it’s such an amazing thing because they begin to be our spiritual partners. I mean, they are our spiritual partners. If they see something in us that we don’t notice, they’ll say something to us. Like one day, our granddaughters were both whispering, saying something to each other. Then they said: “Grandma, do you think you might have a part of you active that’s based in fear right now?” because I was really hurrying to get something done and I was a little bit grumpy. They saw it and it was so beautiful.

I started laughing. I said: “Oh, that’s so great. Thank you for letting me know.” So we can all be spiritual partners with each other. It’s really so amazing.

Connie: We’re getting close to the end so I’m going to ask you two more questions. One is from a reader of the magazine and she asks: “If we are responsible for everything that happens in our lives, does praying to God make a difference? I don’t understand due to books like The Secret, etc. They state that everything we experience is because we chose it, but what if we are experiencing something and we really are having a hard time and would like assistance. Is this when we should ask for help?”

Gary: In my opinion you should ask for help all the time. And there is accuracy in saying that everything that we experience we chose, but the ‘we’ in this case may not be the personality. It may be other personalities of your soul. In other words, the origin of some of your experiences may predate your birth. If something is occurring in your life and you cannot find a cause for it or a cause does not exist for it in your life, it is because that cause existed in an earlier lifetime.

So, yes, choice is the creative dynamic. You are a creator and you created each moment with your choice. That’s why it’s so important to know what your intention is when you choose. I saw a DVD called The Secret (TS Productions 2006) and that DVD seemed to encourage people to create things such as beautiful cars, jewelry, fine homes, luxury and it didn’t draw any attention to the intention behind these creations.

If your intention is not conscious, your creation will not be conscious. If your intention is chosen consciously and wisely, your creation will be constructive and wonderful and joyful.

Linda: Can I just say one thing about that?

Gary: Of course.

Linda: So what we’re saying is the intentions of frightened parts of your personality are very different than intentions of loving parts of your personality and many times, because people don’t recognize they have frightened parts of their personality that are controlling things, they end up making choices, have desires for things that are really spiritually not the best and healthiest thing they could be asking for or doing with their life.

Gary: So, now who do you ask for help for? I don’t use the term God because it means so many things to so many different people, but I think in terms of Divine Intelligence or the Universe with a capital U or Consciousness with a capital C or Love with a capital L or Life with a capital L. Those are all the same thing to me.

And you can ask for assistance at any time and whenever you ask for assistance, you will receive assistance. It may not come just in the way that you expect or the time that you expect, but it will come. And each of us have guides and teachers that are not physical, presences that are intelligent and compassionate and real, but they are not physical.

There’s an old Jewish proverb that says: “Over every blade of grass an angel bends and whispers: grow, grow.” It’s the same with each of us - we are each blades of grass in the spring. Ask for help, ask for guidance. Be aware of what you’re asking for.

Saying: “Please, please, please give me enough money to buy the new Mercedes,” this is not asking for. I say be aware of what you’re asking for because the Universe (if it is in your interest), the interest of the Universe in you is always to assist you in growing spiritually and if it will help you to grow spiritually, you will be assisted in getting a new Mercedes.

If it is best for your spiritual development to lose the Mercedes and everything else that you have, the Universe will assist you in that. Don’t think that the Universe is a big ‘Sugar Daddy’ and if you ask it nicely enough it will provide you with what you want. It will provide you with what you need. It will always provide you with what you need. The Universe is compassionate and wise and its wisdom and compassion are beyond what we can fathom.

But never doubt that it is wise and it is compassionate and when you hold on to that thought then you come immediately to the question then why is there so much pain in the world? Why is there so much brutality? And if you continue to hold on to the thought that the Universe is compassionate and wise you will arrive at an accurate answer because we put those things here because of our choices and because of our choices we can remove them.

This is the Earth school at work. It will not become kind while you remain brutal. It will not become generous while you remain avaricious. It will not be giving while your intention is to exploit.

So, as you change yourself you change the world. What is in you is in the whole and what is in the whole is in you and therefore each of us is ultimately responsible for the whole world. Ask for assistance and you shall receive it. You shall always receive it.

Linda: Yes.

Connie: That was great. Okay, my last quick question is about your journey, Gary, because I know that you were in Vietnam. You were a Vietnam Special Forces Green Beret officer and I want to know about what happened to you that changed you from that life to your spiritual life?

Gary: It didn’t happen overnight. It didn’t even happen over a year. Now that I think about it, it didn’t happen over a decade. It happened over a much longer period of time.

I’ve had experiences that were given by grace, such as writing The Dancing Wu Li Masters, my first book on physics that won the American Book Award for Science, when I had never studied science before my research began or written a book and yet I loved that experience. And I’ve had experiences of being assisted, of understanding. For example, the book I was writing was more intelligent, more creative, more encompassing than I.

But the transformations in me were not due to these glimpses and gifts of grace. They were due to my work. They were due to my intention to grow spiritually. They were due to my efforts to become emotionally aware, even when the physical sensations under the emotions were excruciating, such as they are beneath jealousy or rage or anger or any experience of fear, any frightened part of the personality.

My transformation was due to my own desires to find my intention with each action and choose the most healthy one that I could, rather than the most destructive one that I could, which is what I had been doing when I wasn’t thinking about it. It’s to ask for guidance and help. It’s to pray to Divine Intelligence, but not just pray to get me out of this mess or pain, but to do my best and then pray to see how I created it and how I can create differently. Not to be delivered, but to help me deliver myself.

And then after I do my best, after I do everything that I can, that’s when it’s time for me to put myself in the hands of the Universe to say: “Thy will be done” but not before. This is the creation of authentic power. It’s not looking for salvation or thinking that you can give it to someone else. It is creating a life of meaning and purpose. It is creating mastery in your life through your own will. It is working intelligently and consciously with the Universe. It is becoming all that you were meant to be. It is giving the gifts that you were born to give and receiving from others the gifts that they were born to give.

Connie: Okay, thank you, Gary. Thank you both.

Linda: Connie, I just wanted to say something before we end. The interesting thing is Gary and I have been working together as spiritual partners for over 15 years and one thing that I want to let people know about, that’s on our website (that might be helpful to them if they feel that they’re drawn to creating authentic power and going more deeply into their spiritual growth and having a spiritual partnership with someone), they can go on to our website, which is www.seatofthesoul.com and they can go to the front page and find the Spiritual Partnership Guidelines, which are guidelines that assist you in creating authentic power in your own life and if you have someone who wants to work with you, you can work together with these guidelines.

And it will be very helpful to people. And also the events that we’re going to be doing in Edmonton, we will be practicing with these guidelines and they are ones that Gary and I use all the time. This is how we create authentic power. So we want to share those with you on the website and also if you can come, we’d love to see you in Edmonton at our event.

Connie: I am planning to come. Thank you for telling us about the website and actually there is lots of great stuff on your website. I’ve been reading it avidly. And thank you for talking with me today. I’m really looking forward to meeting you, being a part of the workshop and learning so much more about relationships and myself.